Part of the objection, he says, lies in a more general objection to the idea of a God who has standards of right and … There are many verses in the Bible that support this belief. Keller utilizes the story of Lazarus, a beggar, and the Rich Man in Luke 16:19-31 to support his view of hell. To quote Lewis again, “There are only two kinds of people – those who say ‘Thy will be done’ to God or those to whom God in the end says, ‘Thy will be done.'”. We are fine with punishing our children and making sure they learn valuable lessons. The Reason for God – Chapter One: ... Dee Dee, I am reading it digitally, and i have to get the book! The Reason for God by Tim Keller: Chapter 5. It’s like a person’s salvation is in danger if they even talk about it. For 28 years he led a diverse congregation of young professionals that grew to a weekly attendance of over 5,000. Gehenna is the obvious example that many people know about. Book. He suggests that the ultimate source of this idea is the Bible itself, and since the Bible claims that God is both a God of love and judgment, we shouldn’t be so fast to conclude that they are contradictory. Summary The title is fairly clear. I’m with you that it sometimes means “age.” However, it can also mean “age” in the sense of an unbroken age or perpetuity of time (thus forever is a fine translation). Welcome to our world of big family life, faith, adoption, advocating, farming, staying fit, thrift, and food...lots of food! I look forward to using The Reason for God as a reference in my conversations with skeptics, in my teaching a class of 20-somethings, and in my own personal struggles with faith and doubt. Questions for Discussion and Reflection: 1. So why do different denominations define themselves by salvation doctrine? This is terrible rationale. Why do unitarian universalists focus on the fact that they believe everyone is saved and acceptance rather than defining themselves by a set core of values. Naturally, the teaching on divine judgment is very foreign and even offensive in this cultural milieu. In fact, many of these cultures find the Western objection to divine judgment odd. The Reason For God – Chapter Nine Posted January 7, 2009 by Church of the Servant. A God who, instead of flicking this sin twisted world out of his universe, entered into it, served his enemies, and shed his own blood. It applies to people body and soul. Evil and Suffering May Be (If Anything) Evidence for […] Eternal damnation is found. Our good deeds are but filthy rags compared to God's holiness. The literal translation of forever is ages of ages, which can be read as a finite time period. Really?!? I do not expect to blog through the whole thing, so I’ll start with the most interesting chapter(s). I didn’t really give any passages or anything, so I’ll include a link that I find helpful: http://www.biblicaluniversalism.com/EXAMININGTHESO-CALLEDUNIVERSALISTICTEXTS.htm. Many people agree on this, as it has been very controversial over the years. Keller uses literature, philosophy, real-life conversations, and reasoning to explain how faith in a Christian God is a soundly rational belief, held by thoughtful people of intellectual integrity with a deep compassion for those who truly want to know the truth. In an effort to further that, Ransom Fellowship has prepared detailed reflection and discussion questions for each section and chapter of the book. It is an honest reflection of my ignorance. Anyone can give to a charity, and the church is a charity, and an inefficient one at that (most of the time). You assume that people sent to hell will be truly sorry and repent. If you love someone and see them harmed, would you not be judging the instigator or would it be better to simply love the victim and the perpetrator? Neglect of the poor isn’t a presbyterian problem; it’s a people problem. The Reason for God | Chapter 4. I don’t agree that there are philosophical problems with eternal punishment, necessarily. Someday every knee will bow and tongue confess. The problem is that, as humans, we have a limited view of God’s justice, reason, and logic. In chapter five, “How Can a Loving God Send People to Hell?” Keller addresses the common objection that a loving God cannot also be a God of judgment. Since we were not made to live like this, we experience personal disintegration which results ultimately in self-absorption. (p.85) The real leap of faith comes when someone believes that God is love but judges no one. At the End of the Chinese Rainbow: Our Journey to Patrick, Kenzie; Kooper; Kaeleb; Kambry; Kayden; Christmas, Kinley; Kooper; Encouragement through the Word, Kolton; Kooper; Kenzie; Kayden; Kambry; Kaeleb; Kinley; Kennah; Kasidi, Kuyler; Kolton; Kenzie; Kooper; Kayden; Kambry, Perspective; Encouragement through the Word. I don’t share your view that doctrine is unimportant. So, we are all hoping for our wicked world to be made right and are looking forward to the coming of God to fix our fallen messed up world. He does this to show that our disdain for the idea of judgment often comes from our deep belief in personal rights. Questions for discussion and reflection. Instant downloads of all 1388 LitChart PDFs (including Second Treatise of Government). I have studied the word Aionas. Detailed explanations, analysis, and citation info for every important quote on LitCharts. Jesus is still the way the truth and the life and people can only experience the Father through him. Sadly, people living solely for themselves can never get enough of whatever they are after, and they seem to be chasing elusive happiness. You'll find every post from this site, plus more. Context determines how it should be translated (both grammatical as well as hermeneutical context). Raleigh, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think the answer to your question of “why do presbyterians focus more on calvinism than helping the poor” is that we are sinners. He described Christianity as a house that included Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and various strands of Protestantism. Change ). It is untrue that all early Christians believed in universal salvation. Keller, Timothy. I'm still mulling it over. He simply wanted relief from his torment. Okay, it was a hit so I will share, with the disclaimer that in my opinion you just can't beat scalloped potatoes from the oven, but i... My sweet friend Stacy is hosting Christmas Frenzy for the third year! Can’t we hope and pray that one day God will reconcile all things to himself? Lewis’ book The Great Divorce, he compares hell to a busload of people who are asked to leave behind their sin and depart the bus – but refuse. To true believers he offers a solid platform on which to stand against the backlash toward religion spawned by the Age of Skepticism. My thoughts on Tim Keller's "The Reason for God"--Chapter 5. Even as my view and understanding of sin changed, this basic human trait remained. April 30, 2009 — Leave a comment. The only remedy for such a sickness is to have our hearts rewired by the grace of God in Christ. So if we can make things right in our little world, why would we need God to do that? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence?” (Psalm 139:7) Tozer begins this chapter by identifying one of the great truths of reality: God’s immanence. Reply. Well, I guess nothing would change at all and the world we currently live in is as good as it will ever get. Gehnna was a fire pit outside of Jerusalem where trash was burned and dead bodies were throw into. This Study Guide consists of approximately 29 pages of chapter summaries, quotes, character analysis, themes, and more - everything you need to sharpen your knowledge of The Reason for God. I have seen many churches who dedicate most of their energy to serving others. The Reason for God – Chapter Twelve: The (True) Story Of The Cross “The primary symbol of Christianity has always been the cross,” begins Chapter Twelve. etc. I will agree that God is entirely capable of doing this. This is an apologetic work for why Keller thinks there is a reason for God's existence, specifically the God of the Bible. Do we know that God is specifically granting true repentance to those in hell? But, the fact that we are sinners who get our priorities messed up doesn’t make doctrine unimportant, and it doesn’t make calvinism untrue. Donating money is not loving somebody. provoking conversation at the intersection of faith, life, and culture, June 14, 2008 in Book reviews, Christianity, Culture, Tim Keller. So many arguments against Biblical teachings are based on cultural beliefs. All three views have similarities, but also have huge contradictions. It is untrue that there is no word for “forever” in the Greek. In his 1952 book by the same name, C.S. Hmmmm….. As I listened to Jeff’s sermon Sunday night, I also thought about what life would be like if God really did what we wanted. I just think it makes a whole lot of sense. This is how it’s supposed to be. Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone. He argues that “all loving persons are sometimes filled with wrath, not just despite of but because of their love.” In other words, God’s wrath points us to his opposition to sin – the cancer which eats aways at his good creation. Thanks for exploring this SuperSummary Plot Summary of “The Reason for God” by Timothy J. Keller. They have help out at soup kitchens, visit prisons, protesting unjust laws, fight for workers’ rights, educate people on conserving our planet. I pray that God will one day save all people through Jesus, and I do not think I am going to go to hell for hoping for this! A lot of these churches work within the city, where the poor are for the most part. The original text plus a … And when they truly are sorry and repent, you do not continue punishing them forever. People are afraid of universalism. The Reason for God Timothy Keller Chapter 8: The Clues for God. They don't want to be 'controlled' by anyone. The God of the Bible is One of love and of justice. Jesus referred to Gehenna as a metaphor to describe separation from God. While the love of God depicted in the Bible is not controversial here in the West, the wrath of God is. I am ashamed to include a statement I made before I knew Christ. I’m not denying that there were early Christians who accepted universal salvation; what I’m saying is that their number was few. Thanks for sharing...that was interesting. In this case however, he uses quotes to emphasize that this is an argument heard countless times, not merely a natural break in the chapter. ETERNAL separation from God is not a just punishment for a life of sin on earth. Out of that overflow of joy and gratitude comes the love and service to others. It does matter what a person believes. At least I am a hopeful universalist. No-matter what people say. Why couldn’t an all powerful, all loving, all knowing God save all of his creation? We can't understand God's incredible mercy and grace until we comprehend our own depravity and the reality that we deserve the opposite of his extended hand of friendship. This is why we neglect the poor. I’ve always felt it “funny” how we as humans tend to categorize “badness” and like to think of “their” sins vs. “our” sins so differently, even when we are talking about the collective “our”. That was actually half descent based on your review. Belief in no doctrine at all is in the end a doctrine that shapes a person’s life. I think Laura is right to say that the reason we don’t care for the poor is because of sin. I am very critical of fire and brimstone preaching. Chapter 1 – There Can’t Br Just One True Religion; Chapter 2 – How Could a Good God Allow Suffering? What about the common argument that so-and-so was such a good person, they simply couldn't go to hell? When a loving person is faced with the mistreatment of a loved one, that love is the very root of the resulting anger and wrath. Keller describes the modern view of hell as God casting souls – those unfortunate ones who did not make the right choices in life before their time was up – into hell for all eternity…. They are critical and blame others, they are paranoid and anxious, and they are always right. Keller says. In The Reason for God, he addresses each doubt and explains each reason. Unitarian universalists preach that you can believe whatever you want and that’s fine, one day God will reconcile all. Review of "The Reason for God" Chapter 5 on Hell In my Bible class, we've been studying Timothy Keller's book, The Reason for God . The summary from. He still wanted to be served, even in hell. The whole “You need to be saved” thing is very repulsive. Isn’t it entirely possible that those in hell continue to rebel against God? It almost defines their faith. Later things armenianism and calvanism were adopted. In C.S. He responded. The Reason for God ~ Chapter Five ~ How Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? I can point you to many presbyterian churches that are not only helping the poor, but modeling for the church at large how to do this well. I'm still mulling it over. That is a very modern and western objection. That's exactly what much of the "church" has done though. Romans 9 speaks a lot about this, and is mainly where I am drawing this argument. Timothy Keller – The Reason for God (Chapter 3) April 11, 2008 by Frank Gantz. Anyone could use the Bible to prove that all 3 three of these viewpoints. Where being saved is a contractual law-binding proclamation of faith that Jesus is God’s son rather than a change in lifestyle which leads to caring for the poor (this doesn’t mean giving 10 percent of your income to the church, which only uses a fraction of the money for good), focusing on people rather than money and material objects, taking in the stranger, being peacemakers rather than warmongers, etc. The Reason for God by Tim Keller: Chapter 7. All this is to say, rich theology and doctrine fuels my living. Understood in this way, God’s wrath flows from his love for what is good, beautiful and right since God himself is all of these things. It's a one-stop shop for your Christmas shopping and a way to h... Y'all, feel free to hop on over to our new site! Either we have free will to choose God, or there are a certain elect who God choses as his people. It doesn’t matter what you believe. That is love. Technically He should be able to, and would want the greatest good for humanity. AW Tozer – The Pursuit of God Chapter 5 Summary – ‘The Universal Presence’ “Wither shall I go from thy spirit? It is easier to talk about doctrine than it is to be out in the world loving people as Christ loved people. In the following chapter, you’ll learn about the author’s arguments on the reason why it is good to believe in the Christian God. To be truly loving people, shouldn’t we want them to know Christ and all the good things that come along with it? This chapter is really about absolute morality. The first edition of the novel was published in 2007, and was written by Timothy J. Keller. I refrain from taking a solid stance on any salvation doctrine whether it be calvinism, universalism, or arminianism because like you said “The problem is that, as humans, we have a limited view of God’s justice, reason, and logic”. I have however studied the concept of hell and salvation greatly within the past year as I have personally wrestled with the issue of how God could send people to hell for eternal punishment. 5 – Suffering, injustice, and calamities don’t oppose God’s existence. But, when it comes to our own souls, we somehow want to change the rules and have this belief that an all-loving God would never punish us. New York: Riverhead Books, 2008. During the first few centuries after Christ died, christians believed in universal salvation and reconsiliation. I think you have a great heart, and I’m not trying to separate people by doctrine as I believe we are all one. Who says? "I doubt the existence of a judgmental God who requires blood to pacify his wrath " said a frowning Hartmut, a graduate student from Germany. Because of the serious implications of these ideas, I couldn’t leave some of your statements unchallenged. I just finished chapter 4 last night, which wrestles with the challenge of the church perpetrating so much injustice in the world. Why should anyone preach hell? The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism (2008) is a book and DVD on Christian apologetics by Timothy J. Keller, a scholar and founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City. I know the stuff mentioned on that website are not backed up with figures and statistics. And to skeptics, atheists, and agnostics he provides a challenging argument for pursuing the reason for God. ( Log Out / Those serving a loving God are not serving the true God but rather a fictitious god that helps them feel cozy and cuddly without dealing with the evil of this world brought to bear by Satan and man’s sinful nature. C.S. this is what the noun Sheol describes. Lewis said this: “It is not a question of God ‘sending us’ to hell. Keller brings the chapter to a close by asking where we get our notion that God is a God of love in the first place. You wrote, “Eternal separation from God is not a just punishment for a life of sin on earth.” Why not? And in the New York Times bestselling The Reason for God, he addresses each doubt and explains each reason. (p. 74) But according to Keller, this view of modernity is not accepted by all. The longer I live, the more atrocities I see, and the more heinous sin I witness the more I understand God's wrath...what still blows my mind is his patience and grace that reaches down to a sinner and makes him a son. 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